Curse

Martin Alvito · Sep 18, 2009, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

-people are saying that r/a still lives, this may be true, but imo not as powerful as they used to be. they'll continue to be around but i think their popularity will die out.

They're not the obvious melee solution that they were; in particular, they're less useful for GvG due to the decreased mobility. The previously optimal bar for 4v4 (which didn't use Escape) does not work due to the Blossom nerf, but there are substitute skills available that do the job just about as well. Assault still works fine in HA for camping HBs, and you'll start seeing what will be the standard 4v4 bar in the 4 R/A, N/P OoV, XX (Me or Mo/E typically), 2x Mo/Me HA team. The only thing that hurts there is giving up Blossom's AoE on altars (and situationally, Unholy Temples).

On the plus side, the Ether Prism nerf coupled with the other changes kills sway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

-mindblast itself i think needs to be touched. people looked for ways to exploit mindblast whether through e/d or e/me--anet touched the /d skills last update, they touched the /me skill this update, but people will still continue to find ways to exploit mindblast until they fix mindblast itself.

The damage output of that bar certainly decreases with the Immolate nerf. It's less pressure on split and much less effective in 4v4 given the Distortion nerf. It will still be potent in HA, where you can get maximum mileage out of Rodgort's and the static AoE skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

-patient spirit is definitely powerful and almost rivals woh for the #1 skill in the healing prayers line, even after this slight nerf. this slight nerf is not a big deal.

The nerf basically reduces the total number of possible castings per minute from 15 to 12 (after accounting for after-cast). You weren't clicking it 15 times anyway. Except maybe in Courtyard or Halls with Channeling up.

moriz · Sep 18, 2009, 04:41 PM // 16:41

why updates should consider pve'er opinions very lightly:

Shadowhaze · Sep 18, 2009, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

why updates should consider pve'er opinions very lightly:
*image*

Nice pic, but in all seriousness, a company better value all of it's customers or they will most likely kiss some future revenue goodbye.
Of course you can't make everyone happy. But ah well, life and games do go on. *eats chocolate chip cookie*

Back OT:
The idea of decreasing recharge of Selfless Spirit to something more reasonable or limiting it to so many spells is good. (Of course they'd change it too once I actually bother to get the skill. XD)

Sarevok Thordin · Sep 18, 2009, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

why updates should consider pve'er opinions very lightly:

Why should I even consider anything Tim Buckley did? He already made a story out of miscarriage..

Windf0rce · Sep 18, 2009, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowhaze

Nice pic, but in all seriousness, a company better value all of it's customers or they will most likely kiss some future revenue goodbye.

True, specially when we consider the PvE players are vast majority, so the devs really need to PAY ATTENTION when changing the PvE skills.

Mantra of Resolve nerf in PvE is very, very likely an oversight as the dev update notes clearly only mention PvP reasoning. Yet the PvE nerf of MoR is devasting to several caster builds, and how nice, one day before a farming/PvE event takes place.

I liked the update but the major problem was Mantra of Resolve not being split for PvP/PvE.

Fril Estelin · Sep 18, 2009, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin

Why should I even consider anything Tim Buckley did? He already made a story out of miscarriage..

Yet he has a point. I'm a PvEr and can find some comments here very irritating.

iTzF3aR · Sep 18, 2009, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

Yet he has a point. I'm a PvEr and can find some comments here very irritating.

Yet, some to a certain extent resembles A LOT of people in this forum.

pinguinius · Sep 18, 2009, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

Using a webcomic to prove a point.
That comic is CAD.
The CAD is about WoW.

Ahahahahahahahahahah. Man, that's great.

Oh, you were serious.

II Lucky Charm II · Sep 18, 2009, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Admin

----------------------------------------------------------------
Admin Edit: All right a few points for people.

First, bypassing the word filter with f*ck is NOT allowed. I've been editing your posts (which probably mean they don't make sense now) but I'll just delete from this point forward.

Second, we don't allow "I Quit" posts. They will be deleted. They do not contribute and provide no constructive feedback.

Third, if you honestly feel you have nothing to contribute or can't provide anything other then "this is a crappy update", don't post. Real discussion and conversation can occur in this thread but a one-liner like that is not going to help.

Fourth, personal attacks or insults directed toward others are deleted.

You are more then welcome to post your thoughts and feelings in a constructive manner, to discuss both the pro's and con's of this update but one-liners, cussing, personal attacks and "I quit" posts don't help.

Here's a constructive feedback:

replace then with than.
Wrong verb agreement: Replace mean with means
contribute and provide Two of these verbs mean the same thing so using them in the same sentence is redundant.

Overall, the update is great. Anet is moving in the right direction for once. Congrats.

Deakon · Sep 18, 2009, 06:05 PM // 18:05

I like it... the price of dungeon runs should go up to reflect the changes.

SithLord2064 · Sep 18, 2009, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by De Maximoff

I don't have a problem with Anet adressing PVP issues. The problem I am tired of though is when skills get nerfed in PVE because of PVP abuse or exploits. There is no reason Anet could not have split any of the skill changes into PVE and PVP. Finale of Restoration was restored for PVE to its previous behavior, that was good. Those of us who have no interest in PVP have the skill back. Why change skills for PVE when the reason they are being changed is because of PVP usage though?

Amen. I know it's not the greatest skill, but I LOVE Immolate. It's in the first slot of my ele's bar. And now? I'm thinking that the increased recharge time isn't worth it. WHich is crap, because I've been using that skill for 2 years or more. They can split the PvE and PvP skills, it's been done. So, if the skill is a problem in PvP, don't nerf it in PvE

Jecht Scye · Sep 18, 2009, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deakon

I like it... the price of dungeon runs should go up to reflect the changes.

Heh, don't count on it. Although, I hope you're right.

Yelling @ Cats · Sep 18, 2009, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breakfast Mc Rit

Let's ask ourselves this: What does it teach the inexperienced? Energy management, the importance of runes and weapon sets/switching, aggro control, skill mechanics...

I lol'd

Really?

De Maximoff · Sep 18, 2009, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Because the game is called Guild Wars. There are not two separate games called GW: PvE and GW: PvP. Unifying the skill system allows easier transition between players playing one or the other. PvX players (ie players who play both, not players who use PvXwiki), would be completely shafted if they had to learn 2 completely different skill functionalities for every single skill in the game.

PvE/PvP skill splits should only occur if there is a fundamental need for the skill to function in different ways in the two formats (ie, there is a need for assassins to be able to provide AoE damage in PvE, since that is what PvE is all about, so DB wasn't nerfed, there is a need for passive defense in PvE since monsters have higher attributes and can one shot targets, there is a need for permaSF to not exist in PvP, etc).

I never said that they are seperate games. However PVE and PVP should be balanced on their own merits. PVE should not be balanced based on how skills are being abused or exploited in PVP that is absurd. Finale of Restoration is a perfect example. It was changed because (and Anet admitted it) because of how it was being used in PVP. Anet has now changed the skill back to its previous format in PVE. The skill should never have been changed in PVE to begin with because it was not being abused or exploited in PVE. Ursan was changed because it was overpowering. It was a good change imo, sf should be changed as well.

As far as unifiying the skill system, so what if skills behave differently in PVE and PVP, gameplay and strategy is different for both. Some people do not play PVP (such as myself) and would never 'be completely shafted'. My point to Anet is that they need to realize there is a PVP AND PVE community. Take into consideration PVE when you go and change a skill because of PVP abuse.

De Maximoff · Sep 18, 2009, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by SithLord2064

Amen. I know it's not the greatest skill, but I LOVE Immolate. It's in the first slot of my ele's bar. And now? I'm thinking that the increased recharge time isn't worth it. WHich is crap, because I've been using that skill for 2 years or more. They can split the PvE and PvP skills, it's been done. So, if the skill is a problem in PvP, don't nerf it in PvE

Yes!! I'm glad you agree!

XxSanctusxX · Sep 18, 2009, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Kinda like this update tbh. Good changes, and finally Anet shows some guts by nerfing MoR... Not that it hits 600 that bad. Some of the high end dungeons maybe, but runs like CoF wont be touched by it.. Even i can run it without MoR, (swap it out with LoD) and survive. Just watch the crypts and manage your energy when on 1 degen..
Would have like to see some more changes, but still good update.

Cuilan · Sep 18, 2009, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

why updates should consider pve'er opinions very lightly:

As a PvE'er I want it to be balanced, not overpowered. If you're going to power creep, then do it for other professions too.

Premium Unleaded · Sep 18, 2009, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by hallomik

I'm a PVE player who does not use SF farming builds as I find it really tedious to constantly maintain it. I much prefer other types of farming builds.

That said, if they nerf SF, what is the role of the 'Sin in PVE? An assassin is a fragile, melee attacker that does high, fast damage to a single target. In general this is brilliant in PVP and pretty worthless in PVE.

If Anet nerf's SF hard with no replacement PVE role, the QQ'ing on this thread will seem like a tea party with the queen of England in comparison.

As the owner of a Me/, I have no pity for them especially when my most effective contribution to a team in PvE involves almost no skills from any of my attribute lines since forever.

De Maximoff · Sep 18, 2009, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

As a PvE'er I want it to be balanced, not overpowered. If you're going to power creep, then do it for other professions too.

I totally agree, Ursan made PVE unbalanced and areas like DOA became simply boring. SF has now taken the place of Ursan to a certain extent and made certain PVE areas difficult to find groups. Just try and find a group for Gloom, all you will find are SF runners.

moriz · Sep 18, 2009, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinguinius

Ahahahahahahahahahah. Man, that's great.

Oh, you were serious.

so what it's about WoW? GW PvE is basically a worse version of WoW PvE.

after all, even WoW doesn't have a godemode build. GW certainly does.